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Guguslaw
05-21-2015, 07:21 AM
Hey guys,

my current program is coming to it's end and I think about trying something new, the last one was not very successfull (mostly because I were in a caloric deficit and got injured (not through lifting))
It is like the title says a 6 week training block with 3 training days a week.

The supplemental Movements are mostly for gaining some mass and will be in the 3 sets x8 rep range

I tried staying between 75-85% intensity the whole time.

Do you think this will be enough volume? Any comments, critics or ideas?

I'm 24, a student, with a max of 160 kg Squat, 110 kg bench and 200 kg Deadlift and just started to gain weight at a slow paste, so I should still be able to do fast progress.

http://i.imgur.com/8X72tq0.png?1

chris_ottawa
05-21-2015, 09:06 AM
http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/showthread.php?1626-Meta-can-we-stop-linking-to-excel-downloads-amp-upload-screenshots-or-use-google-docs

j2917
05-21-2015, 09:10 AM
Are you doing each exercise for the same number of reps each day? Are you going to be using fatigue percents or just a fixed number of sets?

Guguslaw
05-21-2015, 09:53 AM
Are you doing each exercise for the same number of reps each day? Are you going to be using fatigue percents or just a fixed number of sets?

All Exercises (beside of the supplemental exercises) are done for the same amount of reps. Monday and Friday are going do be load drops and I and Wednesday repeats for more volume. I am also going to use fatige percents, but still not sure whether to do just 5% fatigue for every exercise (beside of the sups) or to go with higher stress on the 2nd and 4th week and lower stress on the 3rd and 5th week. But the different stress levels are something I can just try out over a few cycles..


Also Chris said its not really necessary to lower volume, when the intensity is rising and to keep the volume at a similar level, so maybe it would be better to turn the volume day around, so starting with x4@8 in week 1 and going up to x6@9 in the 6th week, when the intensity is at its highest?

j2917
05-21-2015, 10:39 AM
All Exercises (beside of the supplemental exercises) are done for the same amount of reps. Monday and Friday are going do be load drops and I and Wednesday repeats for more volume. I am also going to use fatige percents, but still not sure whether to do just 5% fatigue for every exercise (beside of the sups) or to go with higher stress on the 2nd and 4th week and lower stress on the 3rd and 5th week. But the different stress levels are something I can just try out over a few cycles..


Also Chris said its not really necessary to lower volume, when the intensity is rising and to keep the volume at a similar level, so maybe it would be better to turn the volume day around, so starting with x4@8 in week 1 and going up to x6@9 in the 6th week, when the intensity is at its highest?

Not 100% sure I'm following... it would be better to write it all out in your spreadsheet or some other more visual way.

As for not lowering volume while intensity is rising, perhaps I'm missing some context on this, but to ultra simplify it, if you have three primary training variables, 1. volume 2. intensity 3. frequency, whenever you increase one of them, one of the other two must decrease for at least a short time for you to adapt. Usually autoregulation takes care of this. I.e., as intensity goes up, if you keep your frequency the same, volume usually drops for a short season (you get to your fatigue stop faster) until you adapt.

Guguslaw
05-21-2015, 11:58 AM
Not 100% sure I'm following... it would be better to write it all out in your spreadsheet or some other more visual way.

As for not lowering volume while intensity is rising, perhaps I'm missing some context on this, but to ultra simplify it, if you have three primary training variables, 1. volume 2. intensity 3. frequency, whenever you increase one of them, one of the other two must decrease for at least a short time for you to adapt. Usually autoregulation takes care of this. I.e., as intensity goes up, if you keep your frequency the same, volume usually drops for a short season (you get to your fatigue stop faster) until you adapt.

Okay I changed my first post, so it may be better to understand now?
About the volume Chris wrote "You can just vary rep ranges in a non-linear way, try to keep total volume somewhat similar from week to week. Basically, if you are doing low reps on the comp lifts then do higher reps on variations and vice versa."
So would it maybe better to make monday (the main volume day) upside down? So in the beginning of the program, when the Intensity day is at its lowest, the volume day is also more at a medium volume. And when the intensity rises (doing doubles and triples) the volume rises as well => in the end its x6 on volume day and x2 on intensity day. In the end it would be pretty similar volume throughout the 6-week period.

chris_ottawa
05-21-2015, 03:52 PM
Okay I changed my first post, so it may be better to understand now?
About the volume Chris wrote "You can just vary rep ranges in a non-linear way, try to keep total volume somewhat similar from week to week. Basically, if you are doing low reps on the comp lifts then do higher reps on variations and vice versa."
So would it maybe better to make monday (the main volume day) upside down? So in the beginning of the program, when the Intensity day is at its lowest, the volume day is also more at a medium volume. And when the intensity rises (doing doubles and triples) the volume rises as well => in the end its x6 on volume day and x2 on intensity day. In the end it would be pretty similar volume throughout the 6-week period.

Take a look at PrimalAeon's post, this illustrates it very well: http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/showthread.php?2302-changing-rep-ranges&p=18420#post18420

My issue with your program is that you are doing the comp. lifts for volume and variations for intensity. The inverse would not be better either, if you look at Mike Zourdos' works he seems to like using the comp. lifts for both volume and intensity. That's the drawback of DUP, you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's hard to effectively program variations. That's why I would prefer something like the chart I linked, supplemental lifts can be done for higher reps if you want but I personally keep them mostly in the 3-5 rep range. Lower reps for sup. lifts are not necessarily the best option, but just something I'm trying for the moment in order to get more work at a higher intensity.

Guguslaw
05-22-2015, 01:25 AM
Take a look at PrimalAeon's post, this illustrates it very well: http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/showthread.php?2302-changing-rep-ranges&p=18420#post18420

My issue with your program is that you are doing the comp. lifts for volume and variations for intensity. The inverse would not be better either, if you look at Mike Zourdos' works he seems to like using the comp. lifts for both volume and intensity. That's the drawback of DUP, you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's hard to effectively program variations. That's why I would prefer something like the chart I linked, supplemental lifts can be done for higher reps if you want but I personally keep them mostly in the 3-5 rep range. Lower reps for sup. lifts are not necessarily the best option, but just something I'm trying for the moment in order to get more work at a higher intensity.

What do you think about just copying the table and do the main lifts on monday and the assistances on friday? For wednesday something similar depending on the lift, like a bit higher reps on front squats and lower reps on spoto presses (or whatever will be done on wednesday)?

Or rather staying with the dup-style and switching the friday lifts for the comp lifts but adding slight variation by doing the volume beltless for squat/dead and doing tng bench on monday and belted squat/dead and paused bench on friday and having some variation/weakpoints on wednesday (spoto presses/ pause squats) and doing front squats just for higher reps on wednesday since it is a shorter day anyways. The disadvantage is that the closest comp. lifts would be on friday..

____
About the supps like inc press, ohp and cg bench
I added them, so I can build some size and I am not sure if the low reps on the other days are enough for that. Especially for upper chest and delts.

chris_ottawa
05-22-2015, 10:20 AM
What do you think about just copying the table and do the main lifts on monday and the assistances on friday? For wednesday something similar depending on the lift, like a bit higher reps on front squats and lower reps on spoto presses (or whatever will be done on wednesday)?

Or rather staying with the dup-style and switching the friday lifts for the comp lifts but adding slight variation by doing the volume beltless for squat/dead and doing tng bench on monday and belted squat/dead and paused bench on friday and having some variation/weakpoints on wednesday (spoto presses/ pause squats) and doing front squats just for higher reps on wednesday since it is a shorter day anyways. The disadvantage is that the closest comp. lifts would be on friday..

____
About the supps like inc press, ohp and cg bench
I added them, so I can build some size and I am not sure if the low reps on the other days are enough for that. Especially for upper chest and delts.

My suggestion at this point is to take a look at weeks 5-8 of the Generalized Intermediate program for an idea of how to design your template. If you do all 3 comp. lifts on Monday you might end up neglecting your deadlift because you will be tired by the end. Really, it's up to you, just make it work.

Supplemental lifts can definitely be done for higher reps, but I wouldn't necessarily worry about upper chest and delts. Delts should get enough volume from all the pressing that you shouldn't need to worry about the, focusing on the upper chest is not really relevant to powerlifting. The way I see it, OHP and incline are good for shoulder health but in many cases will not have much carryover to bench. In the last 10 months my (e1rm) bench has gone up about 50-60 lbs, incline and OHP have gone up at most 30 and 20, respectively. Do I care about increasing incline and OHP? NO! Some people claim to get a lot of gains on bench from them, but in my case it is not so. Focus on the main lifts and close variations if powerlifting is your goal.

Guguslaw
05-22-2015, 10:56 AM
My suggestion at this point is to take a look at weeks 5-8 of the Generalized Intermediate program for an idea of how to design your template. If you do all 3 comp. lifts on Monday you might end up neglecting your deadlift because you will be tired by the end. Really, it's up to you, just make it work.

Supplemental lifts can definitely be done for higher reps, but I wouldn't necessarily worry about upper chest and delts. Delts should get enough volume from all the pressing that you shouldn't need to worry about the, focusing on the upper chest is not really relevant to powerlifting. The way I see it, OHP and incline are good for shoulder health but in many cases will not have much carryover to bench. In the last 10 months my (e1rm) bench has gone up about 50-60 lbs, incline and OHP have gone up at most 30 and 20, respectively. Do I care about increasing incline and OHP? NO! Some people claim to get a lot of gains on bench from them, but in my case it is not so. Focus on the main lifts and close variations if powerlifting is your goal.

Okay thanks guess I'll try it like this then. My thought on OHP and Inc Press was just that I have an extremely weak OHP. I mean my 110 bench isnt impressive either, but I cant even OHP 60 kg (so abount one plate on each side) for one rep so this might be a weakpoint, which may affect my bench in a good way after fixing. But well it also could be a waste of time.

j2917
05-22-2015, 03:22 PM
Okay thanks guess I'll try it like this then. My thought on OHP and Inc Press was just that I have an extremely weak OHP. I mean my 110 bench isnt impressive either, but I cant even OHP 60 kg (so abount one plate on each side) for one rep so this might be a weakpoint, which may affect my bench in a good way after fixing. But well it also could be a waste of time.

FWIW, I don't think improving your OHP will necessarily benefit your bench directly, but it's also not a waste of time. Just a matter of deciding how you want to prioritize it. Nothing wrong with wanting to improve it for improving it's sake--if that fits in to your goals. Some also say it goes a long way for shoulder health. Figure out why you're doing it and prioritize it accordingly. Also, make sure you should be doing it as not everyone's shoulders are ready for it. Do a search for Eric Cressey's articles about the OHP and how to assess whether you should be doing it, and what to fix if you shouldn't.

Also, I agree with Chris re: the G.I. program. It's a fantastic starting point, tested by many, and designed by one of the best.

chris_ottawa
05-22-2015, 07:38 PM
Just to clarify my position, I'm not against any form of incline or overhead pressing. I just don't recommend spending too much time on it rather than comp. bench and more similar variations. Doing either incline or ohp once a week is sufficient, but any more is likely to be a waste of time and energy that could be better put to use on something else. I fully agree with how Mike programs incline and ohp variations as supplemental lifts, I do the exact same thing. I'm just not overly concerned about making progress on either, the main objective is to increase squat, bench, and deadlift - for me, anything else is of much lower priority.

Guguslaw
05-23-2015, 03:09 AM
http://i.imgur.com/kQVyOcH.png?1 How about this setup? I used the recommended rep scheme from the other thread. Incline Press is out (I can work upper chest on incline flys as gpp work on free days) OHP still there since it helped me to get rid of some shoulder issues. The main comp deadlift is on friday the first exercise, when i'm the freshest and I have enough recovery after mondays Squat/Dead session and the front squats on wednesday are just for more volume etc and not that hard to recover from.
On wednesday I have first my main lockout bench movement and then after some front squats the main raw assistance. Floor Press is the main lockout assistance and to get some heavier weights in my hands. The rest pretty much explains itself... I'd do some SL Deads on wednesday but I have still an (non lifting related) injury on my hammie and can't do them yet so they are not in the plan for now.

chris_ottawa
05-23-2015, 03:01 PM
That looks better, the only thing I would consider changing is adding in t&g bench. You could alternate between floor press and bench w/chains each week, if you are a raw lifter you probably don't need that much top end work. T&G bench has very direct carryover to comp. bench and is good for training the stretch reflex as well.

Guguslaw
05-23-2015, 03:57 PM
That looks better, the only thing I would consider changing is adding in t&g bench. You could alternate between floor press and bench w/chains each week, if you are a raw lifter you probably don't need that much top end work. T&G bench has very direct carryover to comp. bench and is good for training the stretch reflex as well.

Okay thanks sounds good! Tho I'd rather stay with one exercise for a whole cycle and switch in the next one. But Friday is gonna be tng bench day then for even more specific work. Will start this on monday and see how it goes.