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HJH
05-24-2015, 06:29 PM
Hello everyone! I am 23, have been lifting for 5+ years and competitively powerlifting for a year. I have two meets under my belt and will have my third in a week. My first meet, I went 507/226/600 for a 1333 total with wraps at 220. I tokened on bench because I tore my pec. I had a MRI on it and it was diagnosed as a grade II and did not require surgery. My second meet, I went 568/391/617 for a 1576 total with wraps at 220. I barely benched between those two meets because I would constantly strain my other pec. This still bothers me today to the point where I will be looking to token on my bench this upcoming meet as well. For my first two meets, I used Sheiko blocks. For this one, I switched to 531 and that was a huge mistake. I made my assistance work be close variations of the main lifts, but I believe I was unable to get adequate work in with such frequency. I will likely PR on squat at a lighter weight class (198), but my deadlifts in particular have been garbage. This lead me to look for something that has the capability to have higher frequency and volumes, but with built in regulations so that I won't overdo it. Unfortunately, a lot of this is overwhelming, so I wanted to come to all of you to get help. This is what I was thinking of thus far.

Four Training Sessions per Week - Two Hypertrophy and two Strength in order of (SSHH)

S1: Comp Squat, Bench, DL
S2: Assist Bench, Supplemental Bench, Secondary DL
H1: Secondary Squat, Secondary Assistance Bench, Secondary Supplemental Bench
H2: Supplemental Squat, Secondary Main Bench, Supplemental DL

I thought I would put the strength sessions in the beginning of the week or with the periods of longest rest so that I am recovered better for them. I like the idea of two hypertrophy days because I need to grow into the weight class. I have 24 hour weigh ins and can cut 20 pounds no problem. With that in mind, I would like to gradually build myself up to a lean 220 and try to sit at 198 as long as possible. Right now, I am 214 and I am by no means lean.

In regards to exercise selection, I am not completely certain. I will probably go by feel to some extent. For example, if I am really enjoying pin presses as my bench assistance, I may ride that for several weeks before changing it to something like three second paused bench presses.

In the offseason, I was thinking of almost exclusively using load drops to accrue more volume at lighter intensities. I feel this would help me fill out my weight class quicker and will be less likely to cause CNS burnout. As I approach a meet, I might change to rep drops, then repeats and then eventually consider dropping all of those entirely on some days -- say only working up to one set of triples @9 on all my comp lifts and calling it there. Truthfully, as I wrote before, I am a little lost on this stuff, which is why I came to all of you.

Finally, my biggest concern is my pec. I have torn the left one and strained the right one many times. In a podcast, I heard Mike mention he had the same sort of issues as me, but he didn't go into detail that I can recall on how he alleviated the problem. For me, I can get away with a few weeks of benching before I strain it, leaving me out for a month or two (hardly the most effective training). To work around this, I was thinking of bringing my grip in (it's currently pinky on ring at 5'10"), and possibly limiting most of my bench work to @8 on the RPE scale for now.

I know this is a lot to digest, but I find my training very important and I don't want to forget anything. Thoughts?

HJH
05-24-2015, 06:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEpe-THWdlU (1st Meet)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT31fxT4ups (2nd Meet)


Thanks!

j2917
05-24-2015, 10:52 PM
Finally, my biggest concern is my pec. I have torn the left one and strained the right one many times. In a podcast, I heard Mike mention he had the same sort of issues as me, but he didn't go into detail that I can recall on how he alleviated the problem. For me, I can get away with a few weeks of benching before I strain it, leaving me out for a month or two (hardly the most effective training). To work around this, I was thinking of bringing my grip in (it's currently pinky on ring at 5'10"), and possibly limiting most of my bench work to @8 on the RPE scale for now.

It looks like you flare your elbows pretty early... combined with a wide-ish grip, that is probably putting a lot of the stress on your pecs. Not necessarily a bad thing... unless you've got a tear. Bringing in the grip for a little while could help move some of the stress off your pecs.

chris_ottawa
05-25-2015, 09:10 AM
About your bench, I have heard of several powerlifters (Jim Wendler and Konstantins Konstantinovs immediately come to mind) who have narrowed their grip because of pec and/or shoulder injuries. If it allows you to bench without getting injured then it's definitely worth the tradeoff of a few pounds, especially if that means you won't have to do a "token bench" in a meet. I bench with a medium-narrow grip myself, I used to have some shoulder problems (not related to lifting) and anyway it seems like I'm stronger like that.

For your programming, you could check out some of the programs on powerliftingtowin.com, there is a DUP program similar to what you are talking about (PIP2 I think is the name). Personally, I would recommend either using the generalized intermediate program or at least using the template from the first 4 weeks. There have been several people on the forum asking questions related to this in the last couple days so I advise you to read some of the recent posts. And by the way, you are better off putting deadlift on the second day as the first exercise, you will have more energy and will be able to perform better like that.

HJH
05-25-2015, 10:19 AM
It looks like you flare your elbows pretty early... combined with a wide-ish grip, that is probably putting a lot of the stress on your pecs. Not necessarily a bad thing... unless you've got a tear. Bringing in the grip for a little while could help move some of the stress off your pecs.

You are right. I'm told I even flare early with a close grip. It'a pretty hard for me to control. Internal rotators might be tight and external rotators might be weak? Seems like another good reason to keep RPE down on bench -- I will probably revert to my natural tendencies and flare too early if the RPE gets too high. Thanks!

HJH
05-26-2015, 11:11 PM
About your bench, I have heard of several powerlifters (Jim Wendler and Konstantins Konstantinovs immediately come to mind) who have narrowed their grip because of pec and/or shoulder injuries. If it allows you to bench without getting injured then it's definitely worth the tradeoff of a few pounds, especially if that means you won't have to do a "token bench" in a meet. I bench with a medium-narrow grip myself, I used to have some shoulder problems (not related to lifting) and anyway it seems like I'm stronger like that.

For your programming, you could check out some of the programs on powerliftingtowin.com, there is a DUP program similar to what you are talking about (PIP2 I think is the name). Personally, I would recommend either using the generalized intermediate program or at least using the template from the first 4 weeks. There have been several people on the forum asking questions related to this in the last couple days so I advise you to read some of the recent posts. And by the way, you are better off putting deadlift on the second day as the first exercise, you will have more energy and will be able to perform better like that.

You are right and I have heard of many people bringing it in after pec issues, including the ones you listed.

I couldn't find PIP2 or anything similar on powerliftingtowin.com, perhaps it was somewhere else? So you personally believe that the intermediate program written for a conventional DL is the best choice? I looked at it and considered it, but the hypothetical person totals nearly 500 pounds less than me at the same bodyweight and I am a sumo puller who historically has issues at the top (although right now, I am having issues from the floor for the first time ever).

I thought that doing squat-bench-deadlift at the beginning of the week after a nice rest would be a good way to simulate meet conditions, but I can also see that affecting deadlift progression long-term.

Perhaps I could take the intermediate program and try to run it to the best of my abilities with minor tweaks, such as changing conventional to sumo? I could go by feel on the pec, as in if it is acting up, I can sub that for overhead or CG work?

HJH
06-02-2015, 11:30 AM
Meet went okay. I think I would have performed better if I slept better. Went 8/9, 570/355/630 @198. Took it easy on the bench and close gripped. I missed my second attempt on squats, but came back and got it on my third.

How does this look, other than mixing up the words qualitative and quantitative? :)

680

chris_ottawa
06-02-2015, 08:05 PM
You are right and I have heard of many people bringing it in after pec issues, including the ones you listed.

I couldn't find PIP2 or anything similar on powerliftingtowin.com, perhaps it was somewhere else? So you personally believe that the intermediate program written for a conventional DL is the best choice? I looked at it and considered it, but the hypothetical person totals nearly 500 pounds less than me at the same bodyweight and I am a sumo puller who historically has issues at the top (although right now, I am having issues from the floor for the first time ever).

I thought that doing squat-bench-deadlift at the beginning of the week after a nice rest would be a good way to simulate meet conditions, but I can also see that affecting deadlift progression long-term.

Perhaps I could take the intermediate program and try to run it to the best of my abilities with minor tweaks, such as changing conventional to sumo? I could go by feel on the pec, as in if it is acting up, I can sub that for overhead or CG work?

I would have responded sooner, I must have missed your post.

If you are a lot more advanced than the lifter for who the GI program is designed then maybe it's not ideal for you. You could still use the template from the first 4 weeks though, and either way the program is a good introduction to RTS-style training. And if you pull sumo then it would only make sense to adjust the exercises to your own needs, as well as anything else that doesn't work for you.

chris_ottawa
06-02-2015, 08:13 PM
Meet went okay. I think I would have performed better if I slept better. Went 8/9, 570/355/630 @198. Took it easy on the bench and close gripped. I missed my second attempt on squats, but came back and got it on my third.

How does this look, other than mixing up the words qualitative and quantitative? :)

680

Can you put up a bigger screenshot? I can barely read it.

From what I CAN see, one thing I would suggest switching is front squat and pause squat, unless you really feel you get a lot out of front squats. Normally front squats are a "supplemental" movement, for the squat assistance squat you would normally do something closer to the comp. lift, but in the end it's your choice.

HJH
06-02-2015, 11:32 PM
Can you put up a bigger screenshot? I can barely read it.

From what I CAN see, one thing I would suggest switching is front squat and pause squat, unless you really feel you get a lot out of front squats. Normally front squats are a "supplemental" movement, for the squat assistance squat you would normally do something closer to the comp. lift, but in the end it's your choice.

Sure thing!

I read that, but I decided to have the front squat as the primary squat assistance at the start of a day for two reasons.

1) I tried doing Front Squats after Competition Style Sumo Pulls on 5/3/1 for the past three months and it was brutal! My thoracic seems very weak and would be fried after the pulls.

2) I believe Front Squats have a lot to offer me. I failed my first attempt with 570 because my thoracic goes into flexion very easily. I pull rather heavily with thoracic flexion as well and this is something I hope to minimize. I believe weak thoracic and glute extensors may be the problem.

3) The idea of doing paused squats on a hypertrophy day with higher reps and a long TUT seems brutal!

Of course, I may be way off base here and you guys are more proficient in this kind of stuff. I just felt I should explain my rationale for what I chose to see if my reasoning is moot or not.

HJH
06-02-2015, 11:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXCE4b3mNGA&feature=youtu.be

Example of my 630 pull from the meet (I apologize for poor quality)

681

HJH
06-02-2015, 11:38 PM
I apologize for the small picture. It keeps automatically resizing it on me when I try to upload it. I will try to work on it.

HJH
06-02-2015, 11:44 PM
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VO5iLBq_LvfD7udTl_ndxobiPiPPdRXrN9QQP2yNh6o/edit?usp=sharing

chris_ottawa
06-03-2015, 09:51 AM
It looks fine. I would do repeats rather than load drops when the top set RPE is @8, also don't use @10 too often and not on 3 lifts in one day.

HJH
06-03-2015, 10:51 AM
It looks fine. I would do repeats rather than load drops when the top set RPE is @8, also don't use @10 too often and not on 3 lifts in one day.


Those are solid points. I will change it. Thanks.

HJH
06-03-2015, 02:12 PM
Does this look better?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n3GZQgt4AHijADcX9lWvWZZNh6-rkzNrzRnOyk6ahrQ/edit?usp=sharing

chris_ottawa
06-03-2015, 03:40 PM
The only thing I'm not sure about is how you are doing doubles on the main lifts 3 weeks in a row. You might be better off doing different numbers of reps each week, although going for @10 on one week is a decent substitute. The way you have the reps undulating on the other lifts is good, maybe try applying that to the comp. lifts.

HJH
06-03-2015, 05:04 PM
Changed X2@10s to X1 @9s. Look better?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n3GZQgt4AHijADcX9lWvWZZNh6-rkzNrzRnOyk6ahrQ/edit?usp=sharing

chris_ottawa
06-04-2015, 09:28 AM
If it was me, I would probably do something like 3-4-2-3. You can do singles also, but another strategy is to work up to x1@8-9 (opener or a slightly heavier) and then do reps for the down sets. You wouldn't do that all the time, just here and there and in the weeks leading up to a meet.

HJH
06-04-2015, 06:31 PM
If it was me, I would probably do something like 3-4-2-3. You can do singles also, but another strategy is to work up to x1@8-9 (opener or a slightly heavier) and then do reps for the down sets. You wouldn't do that all the time, just here and there and in the weeks leading up to a meet.

Could you explain why you would prefer that? Particularly if they are RPE's of 9, you theoretically would have no work at 90% plus. From my understanding, the bulk of our work should be around 80-85%, but some should be done at 90%+ as well. Also, I read somewhere that Mike likes to have intensity wave in Low-Medium-High-Medium. Any thoughts on that?