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Thread: An unexplored alternative

  1. #1

    An unexplored alternative

    krisfranorge wrote:
    Introduction:

    My girlfriend used to do 14 chins. But for a year straight, she's been cutting training and eating a box of ice cream every day. Now BW is a 3RM. This is stable. It is never 2 or 4RM. And this got me into thinking that dynamic programming may fall short in those circumstances where there is little weight on the bar or little day-to-day variation in strength. For BP, my girlfriend can do 50kg for 2-3 reps any day. However, 2.5kg up or down is a whooping 5%, equaling a jump from 3RM to 1RM for her. Obviously, 2.5kg will not be a small enough increment for her to tune in 3RM weight according to day-to-day strength. I believe this calls for a different parameter. Therefore I have put together a program for her like this (exampe is for chins):

    Volume phase:

    Week1: Day1: Max Total Reps within 6 mins, Day2: Max Total Reps within 8 mins

    Week2: Day1: Max Total Reps within 8 mins, Day2: Max Total Reps within 10 mins

    Week3: Day1: Max Total Reps within 6 mins, Day2: 1 set max reps.

    Intensity phase:

    Week4: Day1: 10rep x 3 (reversed band), Day2: 5RM (dead weight)

    Week5: Day1: 10rep x 3 (reversed band), Day2: 3RM (dead weight)

    ..and then back to start.



    First off - this way of programming is easy to follow for my girlfriend, as she refuses to deal with @8-10 and /fd% etc. Also, it seems to be autoregulating even though the weight is set (as long as she keeps hitting the ice cream hard..), in the sense that total volume will be dependant on her shape that day. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Svein wrote:
    Personaly, when it comes to volume, I like to regulate it with a ladder system and a MYO-system.
    This can be done with a band.

    Week 1: Ladder 1 - top pyramid (1..2..3...4..5..6 etc) --> x3-5@9 - wanted fatigue
    Week 2: Ladder 1 - top and down (1...2..3..4..5..6..5..4..3..2..1) --> x4-6 - wanted fatigue
    Week 3: Ladder 2 - Top pyramid (2..4..6..8) --> x1-3@9 - wanted fatigue
    Week 4: Max test --> x4-6 - wanted fatigue

    I actually like doing chins "light / heavy" and not phase them in any way. I also like using a rest-pause system for volume and not just the modified escalating density training (M-ESD) you presented. I mean. Mike seems to be a fan of ESD too, and I`m not one to talk down on Charles Staley, but I just havent found a place for it in my own programmingsystem.

    When it comes to creating the basestrength I dont see the point in focusing too much on reps for time. Gain the baselevel strength and the explosiveness and needed power for reps will come following. Highly highly paraphrased by Kraemer..

    Also eccentric focus is something I love. Or chins with stops, as with the bench, in the tough spot. I use this a lot!

  3. #3
    krisfranorge wrote:
    Now that's a kind of answer you won't get on fitnessbloggen.no!

    I'm not that familiar with myo. How does the ladder work? 15 sec breaks between rep clusters, lie 1.. 15sec.. 2.. and so on? And then you do 3-5 sets of pyramids, aiming for @9 at the top set of the pyramid?

    I'll admit my personal interest in this kind of training is for hypertrophy purposes for those exercises I don't feel like spending too much time on. I already bench press 4-5 hours a week (boards and bands ++ included..). I just want to maintain some hypertrophy for my lateral delts and upper back etc. The advantage of my model is that I'm done in no more than 10 mins. That much I can get myself to do .

  4. #4
    cmcnamara wrote:
    Dynamic programming still works when there is relatively "little" weight on the bar. I'm a very small female (~47 kg) myself, so I've struggled with this problem on the bench press. The key is fractional loading. Get a set of .5 and .25 kg plates and go for incremental PRs. You're right that 2.5 kg is a huge deal when your max is around 50-52 kg, but there are ways to avoid such a substantial jump.

    With respect to the chinups, I saw progress after I dropped reps and added weight. If you're trying to make dynamic training work, just change the way in which you measure your progress (or, in the case of the bench press, your incremental expectations for progress).

    That said, sometimes change for the sake of change can spur progress, especially if you've been stuck in the same loading pattern rut for an extended period of time.

  5. #5
    Mike Tuchscherer wrote:
    Another way to help with percentages when the total bar weight is small: use Rep Drops instead of load drops. There's an article (Fatigue Percents Revisited) that explains them.

    I know your girlfriend likely won't care, but I'll throw this out there anyway just in case someone else is wondering.

  6. #6
    krisfranorge wrote:
    Reporting on my finding after the first 3 weeks of increasing volume. My ability to perform high numbers of reps (in total) is up by quite a lot. Still, I crash and burn after 4 minutes if I don't do my reps in clusters of 4 or 5's even if I can do 10 chin ups with seemingly little effort. Today I'm testing my bw maxreps to see if it's up from ~15. What I can conclude already is that my lats has grown visibly. Keep in mind that I didn't do much (if any) chin ups before I started this EDT experiment, and so I would be surprised if there would be a pronounced effect, if any, on pecs or triceps or any other muscle I already train a lot. Still, I can conclude that EDT alone does work for hypertrophic purposes even though it is no more than 10-15 mins a week.

  7. #7
    keiwil wrote:
    has anyone tried myo-reps extensively for isolation type work?

    It sounds interesting. Are the first reps used to deplete phosphagen system and then go over to lactic acid type training?

  8. #8
    krisfranorge wrote:
    My chin ups is up from 14RM to 19RM. So there you go, +5 in 3 weeks of EDT with 10-15mins a week .

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